Calm Under Pressure: Working Lightly in a Demanding Role Ep 72

Ever felt overwhelmed by the pace and pressure of your role?

 In this episode I’m joined by my client Jen Corkran, who opens up about stepping into a demanding new position and learning how to stay grounded, confident, and calm - even when everything around her felt fast and intense.

Jen shares the mindset shifts, practical tools, and self-care practices that helped her move from overwhelm to feeling capable, clear, and supported. 

We talk about what it really looks like to “work lightly” in a high-pressure environment, and how you can begin applying these same principles in your own work and life.

If you’re craving more ease, balance in your day-to-day, this conversation will feel like a breath of fresh air.

For further personalised support:

Private coaching

or my new Working Lightly Reset—a 3-hour coaching experience designed to help you find calm, sustainable success quickly. 

Spots are limited as I prepare for maternity leave, so check the links if you’re interested. 

Private Coaching - book in for an Initial Breakthrough Session or work with me in a 3 or 6 month program

Reclaim Your Calm $20 workshop

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Transcript

0:27

Hello, and welcome back to the podcast. I'm Anabel Matson, and today I'm gonna be joined by my lovely client, Jen Corcoran. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by the pressures of a fast-paced role, or struggled to find balance and calm in amongst the constant demands. This episode is for you. Jen shares her personal journey of stepping into a challenging new role and navigating the steep learning curve and discovering how to work lightly even when the pressure is on. We are gonna be exploring the practical tools, mindset shifts, and self-care practices that have helped Jen move from a place of overwhelm to feeling empowered and much more at ease in how you can apply these lessons. To your own life in career, too, get ready for an honest, insightful conversation about resilience, self-compassion, and thriving in demanding environments. If you two would like to learn how to work lightly and you're interested in working together, I'll leave a link to two options below to work with me in this way. So either in a private program or my new Working Lightly Reset, which is a three hour private coaching experience designed to help you find calm, sustainable success in your work and life fast. I am heading away on maternity leave very soon, and bookings are filling up before I head away. So if you're keen to explore either of those options, check out those links below and let's dive in. Welcome, Jen to the podcast. So excited to have you here with me and actually just, it's great that we're having this conversation before the end of the year. We were talking about this before we jumped on that We've sneaked this in before the end of the year, so welcome to the podcast, Jen. I'm really looking forward to talking to you today. Thanks, Annabelle. It's great to be here and we have been talking about this for a while, so it is exciting to be here as we race towards the end of 2025, which is crazy, uh, but it feels like we're hanging out, so I'm really excited for this. Yeah, and it's so cool because I know this is not your first rodeo. This is something that Jen does often in her work, in a, in a different way. Podcast interviews, this one's got a slightly different take because it's. We're talking about you and your experience over the last couple of years. So, why don't we kick off really the first thing I'd love to ask you and for you to share with those that are listening. Where were you when you first decided to reach out for some, for some support? So what was happening in your life and work prior to us getting connected and you deciding to jump into a program together? Yeah, thanks Anabel. So. I was six months into a new role when I first reached out to you, and that was after finishing up another job that I'd been in for 12 years. So basically kind of from my mid, twenties through the following 12 years was with one business. Um, an amazing job. Really enjoyed it. And, you know, started in a new journey with a new role, a role that I knew was going to be a stretchy for me because I'd been in my previous role for so long. But B you know, I really wanted to make sure I had the tools available that this new job that I was really passionate about as well, and especially the growth and journey in terms of learning that I had coming at me with that job or with the job that I'm now in still is, is kind of why I decided to reach out and. It was the first year of the job when I did first reach out to you. So obviously I was right in that steep kind of learning curve, right? Like that, that I'd gone from this place within that 12 years of being very much in my comfort zone, especially, you know, the last probably five, six years of that role to, um, starting at the bottom in terms of kind of feeling like I knew what I was up to and that kind of big learning. Curve and that stretch that you feel, um, when you're completely out of your comfort zone really. So I was really wanting to front foot hoping that I could move into a place that this job could be really sustainable for me and light, you know, not heavy, and that I could lead like a kind of Stressless life but also be really pushed at work and in a role that was helping me grow. So that was kind of, yeah, my motivation, I suppose. And life overall was going good. Like, at home. But yeah, what I was missing, I guess, and, and the reason for the change was just to get that extra push and that next step in my growth journey professionally, I suppose. Awesome. Um, and I think that's the sweet spot I think a lot of people are searching for is to have that growth and that stretch. But for it to not come at the cost of our own wellbeing and our own sense of peace. And what I love about your journey and what I've witnessed in you over the last couple of years is that you've actually been able to access that sweet spot. And we're gonna talk about today the things that have really supported you in doing that. Do you wanna describe for us, Jen, the kind of work that you're involved in and perhaps the things that you find are the challenging parts of your role? Sure. So I work in the agriculture industry. Uh, I'm a passionate sort of egg advocate, I suppose, uh, in New Zealand and around pastoral farm systems. Um, in my previous role and this role kind of moved me, uh, into an analyst kind of role in understanding the sheep and beef sector. So basically helping people, like really high level view, helping people make sense of what's happening in that red meat, so that sheep and beef space. Within New Zealand and my job is, I guess to turn what can be quite complex information about, you know, the markets, whether this meter's being sold or what's going on on farm and to kind of really easy to understand clear information for, for people both within the industry and, you know, clients of the business that I work for as well. Um, but a big part of this role involves a lot of public speaking, a lot of kind of being the face. And that might be media interviews. Uh, it might be industry events or presentations and, you know, presentations might be in front of 10 people or it might be in front of a board, or it might be in front of, you know, 400 people or more. It's no big deal. It can be quite stretchy in that, you know, here you are trying to offer, you know, simple soundbites, useful information that people can, you know, make insightful, take insightful action from. But in a really easy to understand way and doing that in a way that's authentic, I suppose, and, and so that people will really take on board what you've got to say. And I suppose like the growth for me was going from knowing a lot about what I was doing in my previous role and pastoral to having to learn quite a lot about, you know, the role I was going to be doing as well. The role involves a lot of switching gears. You go from research, sort of deep research and reading and spreadsheets into sort of, fast-paced communication high pressure public moments, you know, live interviews, these sorts of things which I recognized were part of the role. I, I, I took on the role with no sort of qualms that this would be what it would involve, but I also recognize that there'd be a need for me to really be able to access where my nervous system was at. And, um. Try to make sure that I could approach that in a calm, soft and light way so that, you know, these types of events didn't burn me out every year by Christmas time. So that, you know, you end up falling in a heap over the summer holidays and then kind of reviving yourself and then, you know, repeating the process again. That is not what I wanted for myself. And you know, I'm very, I'd consider myself someone that's really healthy, physically exercise, healthy eating, like I'm just passionate about that naturally, and I always have been. But I did recognize, you know, there was some real work that I needed to do if I wanted to make this role sustainable around that whole mind piece. And, the physical body is very much influenced by the mental body, right? And the way we carry ourselves and the way we hold onto to any emotions or things that happen to us in our day-to-day, whether that's at work or not. So I think, you know, this role could potentially be quite challenging. If I didn't have the tools to, uh, approach it in a kind of a way that I wanted to make it sustainable. Absolutely. And I just love. The way, like just that level of care that you approach yourself with, you know, wanting to take care of yourself physically, but recognizing that that's one part of the picture. Um, that there's an an emotional component. There's a mental component that goes with that. I find that a lot actually with women that I come into contact with is they actually might have a lot of that physical stuff down. They might be, yeah. They know how to take care of themselves physically exercising regularly, know how to eat well. They know those physical practices that really serve them, but yet they're still feeling really burnt out. They're still feeling overwhelmed. Big highs and lows emotionally. And I think that's because, we've got the physical self-care down, but there's another part which is the emotional self-care. And that's a big part of what you and I covered off together. That's been a big part of what you've picked up. Um, because I think when we talk about working in a lighter way, when we, we talk about having a more balanced and sustainable relationship with work, we've gotta look at both of those things. It's the physical self-care, but it's very much the emotional self-care as well. Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent agree. And, um, and I think, you know, for me part of that was recognizing that was the case and not pushing down, you know, I'm all, I'm okay. I, I'm all good to push on through this. I've got this to being like, okay, like what do I need to be noticing in the day to day that's gonna help me wake up tomorrow and, and start afresh and in a calm kind of collected. Easy manner, and maybe that's a good place for us to start is you've got the physical self, self-care down, you had the physical self-care down. What was the learning curve for you from an emotional self-care point of view? What was some of the things for you that I guess practices or, or ways that you've learned to tend to your emotions and your mental health? Like in what ways have you. Sort of supported yourself in that space? Yeah, I think for me, like one of the things I think we talked about early on when we started our journey together was, you know, the way that I was showing up, you, you, you know, you'd ask me how is the way that you are showing up in the day-to-day now, whether that's work or outside of work. And I think what I felt was a heaviness and a and a need to kind of control. I was achieving that I was doing a good job and that I could get, you know, validation from others that would prove that to me. And, you know, if something didn't go well, I'd tend to be a little bit hard on myself, not hard on anyone else, but just internally move into this sort of harsh place with myself. And it made me really just see through our work together as well, that for many years, even in a job when I wasn't feeling as stretched. I wasn't being a great friend to myself at times, uh, in terms of what I was achieving. And I needed to feel the emotions of whatever they were anytime. So whether that's pride because you have, you know, you feel like you've done a good job or you've contributed well to a conversation or a meeting or, or, a piece of work or whether that means you know, that perhaps you have something that you've learned that you could work on and. So really recognizing emotional triggers and how I'm feeling was probably the first step. And I recognized that there was a lot of heaviness that sat around not feeling those emotions or, or kind of working through what they were. And for me that that meant getting them out. Like they, I feel like they'd get stuck in my body and that would be a weight that I then carried around. And I think, you know, before I worked together, I think if I got to meet. The person that I was say two, three years ago before I started working with you, and even when I was in my old role where I wasn't feeling as stretched, um, and I was in my comfort zone a lot more of the time. I don't think that that same person is, is who I would be chatting to, you know, as I am now, I would wanna give her a hug and be like, Hey, just relax. Yeah. Everything's gonna be fine. And also, you know, don't be so hard on yourself. So, yeah. And, you know, that's vulnerable for me to admit, but also like what I, what I feel like I used to try to do was to be perfect or at least have the FCA facade. You say that word that I was perfect and that I was doing a great job, but when you don't feel it internally, then you're carrying around this, this kind of inner heaviness. And I think for me, the first step, and I guess we'll talk more about the other things, but the first step was feeling those emotions and recognizing what they were. And they're not bad. Like no emotion is bad. And I think, I thought if you feel sad or angry, that's bad emotion. You can't feel that. Yes. But actually no. Like every emotion has a place and you need to feel it and let it move through you and out. Or process it. And I think. Carrying around heavy emotions especially for those women and people that want to achieve or that, you know, have an achieving personality. They wanna do well, they wanna do well for others. Not necessarily to get validation, but it's just, you know, a part of, of a lot of us that we wanna achieve and, and do a good job. I think if you're not your, our own best friend and you're not feeling the emotions as they come up, then that's not, that can often sit in a really heavy place within your body. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh gosh, that's so beautiful, Jen. And I think it, there's absolutely a vulnerability around that, especially as you say for those who have the achieving personality, sort of type a people who want to achieve, who are ambitious, have, goals for themselves. I think there's vulnerability around recognizing the parts of us that may be. Um, are lacking support the parts of us that are needing support. I think there's a vulnerability around recognizing, oh, actually I'm hard on myself. And what that really is about is that. I'm doubting myself. I'm not believing that I'm good enough, and so I put this pressure on myself to overcompensate for that. I think a lot of it, where the shift is, I found is actually recognizing that that's the truth. That's what's showing up here. That's what's sitting as the undercurrent of a lot of the. The emotional experience, the stress that people are having is that, and I think that there's a, a vulnerability that sits around that when you're high achieving, to recognize actually a lot of what I'm experiencing, the stress and overwhelm can actually be attributed to some kind of a belief system, some kind of way in which I'm treating myself or speaking to myself. And sometimes we're not even aware of that. We actually have to bring that up to the surface and shine a light on it. And it's not until. We shine a light on it that we actually can change that. So I think, it's being aware of your, we've always talked about being aware of your body and your body sensations, that the body never lies. It takes a while for the mind to catch up. But if you're experiencing a heaviness as you're talking about, and your workday and your life overall. That's speaking to some emotions that are in your body that are wanting to be a recognized and felt and then released. So yeah, I think that's such an important point that you bring up there. Yeah, I love that. And I, I think the beliefs is, is huge, right? Like if you have a belief, this is what I found through our work. Like if I had a belief and innately like the, the belief that a lot of us carry around as human beings. Is that, you know, we're not enough or we're not good enough, or something not enough related to something, um, whether it's work or not. And then. What you tend to find, if that's your belief, is that you'll be subconscious, is what I find anyway. Like I tend to look for any clues that will reaffirm that that belief is true. Yes. Uh, and so, you know, flipping that on its head with our work and you know, I was aware of all this stuff before, like, you know, you can get told this, but you really have to live it and, you know, work through it and use tools to, to train habits of a lifetime almost. But, you know, making the belief, actually I think my one, one of our first ones that we did, which was wonderful, we, we did kind of like a meditation on this belief before I went into a meeting and it was very early on. I was over in Sydney, um, with my team, um, with the teen throw that I'm in and. Yeah, and it was that I had value to offer. I was a little bit nervous about the first meeting. You know, these an amazing high achieving team that I sit within and I thought, gosh, what value am I gonna bring today? But you said, Hey Jen, you've got value to offer and let's do this before you go into the meeting on that day. And I remember messaging you or sending you a voice note after that meeting and being like, Annabel, like I just came out with. Some great you know what I thought was like fun and like useful conversation points in this team meeting that we had, and I was really proud of myself. I know it sounds silly, no one else probably noticed, but I was like giving myself high fives on the way back to the hotel room because I had this new belief that I had, written in my phone and I was trying to say it over and over in my head. And, um, and it was that I had value to offer and I actually proved to myself that I had value to offer because my belief was a positive belief. And then I looked for clues and boom, those clues came popping up. And so, yeah, that was a real big one for me early on in the journey where I was like, oh, I'm so glad I've got, you know, another year of working with Annabel to go.'cause I could already start to see the effects of, of some of these just more conscious. Focuses on on what was already going on, right? Yes. And um, and I'm not saying I was doing a terrible job at life or work before we started working together, but I was becoming more aware of some tools that I could use to make it easier on myself to have a sort of sustainable and positive feeling. And my body versus the heavy and kind of self-doubting one, which is naturally where we'll all go as humans. It's just the way we're wired, right? To keep ourselves safe. Absolutely, and I think the, the example that you mentioned there around the meeting, we are telling ourselves a story one way or another, going into an experience like that. We are telling ourselves some kind of a story and it can either be conscious or unconscious. And if we are not getting out in front of the way that we are thinking and being intentional and conscious about our thoughts, then we are going into an experience like that unconsciously, and we're allowing our mind to define that for us. And that story is most likely going to be quite limiting and quite negative. And you think about. Your experience of going into that meeting, I've got value to offer here. How that changes how you feel first and foremost in your body. And when you feel that way, you feel that sense of empowerment, that sense of confidence. You know, you show up differently. You are more likely to contribute, you're more likely to discuss, you're more likely to ask questions and involve yourself, versus if you're telling yourself either consciously or un or unconsciously, a story of. I don't have value to offer. What do I have to offer you? Shrink, you know, you, you're much more likely to stay quiet, to not contribute to trip over your words to doubt. You know, the things that come to mind. You're less likely to offer those. So I think there's so much power in recognizing that we have a choice, that there is a choice that is always available. Which story am I gonna tell myself going into this experience? Because the story is not happening to me. I'm the one that actually gets to decide and to be, and to be telling myself a story. And so I love that you got out in front of that and said no. This is the story. This is the one that I'm going into this experience with. And you had that experience. It shows the power of being intentional about the way that we think, and it's a simple concept, but it's life changing. Oh, a hundred percent. And you know the, those thoughts that pop into your head all the time. You know, we can recognize those thoughts or emotions as, as a, as a story passing us by and not necessarily a truth. And I think that was part of that for me was recognizing, okay, it might, this might be a story I've been telling myself 20 years. Whoops. I think, I didn't realize this was a fiction, fictional story. Yes. Um, not a true one. And, uh, that was another like, and again, like I'd done a lot of self-development and I, I felt like even when we started working together, I was, I'm someone that is very self-aware and I Absolutely, and to kind of analyze and look back and reflect and, and try to learn and grow all the time, but I think it was some of these really simple, kind of nervous system related type things. Was where my growth really took a sort of, you know, took a turn and, and sort of headed up the hill in the right direction. Even though, you know, how I was behaving before, there wasn't anything wrong with that. It was just that I have, you know, became more intentional about the way I wanted to show up, as you say, which I think was, um, was a real game changer in moving into this role and working with you at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. We talk a lot about, and I work together about this concept of working lightly and how, I would just be really interested from your perspective, how you would describe that. And then I guess it's been threads of what we've just already talked about, but if someone was in the space of working lightly you know, what would it feel like? What would it look like if someone was working from this place or living from this place? I love this because I think one of the earliest things I said to you is, Anabel, I wanna be able to work really lightly. And it was like, oh, I've got a whole framework of work that sits around this. But, um, I honestly, like for me. I didn't really know what working lightly was. I just knew that I didn't wanna feel heavy, I suppose. So I just used the opposite word when I talked to you about it at the start. But for me, it was really that I didn't wanna feel overwhelmed with what I was up to with work. But also in the weekends and in your personal life, you know, when, when there's a lot going on with family, whatever it is, I didn't wanna feel overwhelmed. But rather you know that the path in front of me is, is clear. Like, I know I kind of likened it to going for like a, a tramping bush walk. You know? I love tramping and being out in the bush. And that when you're out there, you, you are enjoying the present moment and you are walking and you know, there might be a hill coming or, or a river crossing or something, but you aren't worried about what that looks like because you're just enjoying the path that you're on. And I think for me, I wanted to have that with work. Like, you don't know what's gonna happen this week or next week, or what deadlines might jump in front of you and come way sooner than what they're meant to, or you can't control how other people. Might show up at work, but working lightly for me meant that I could just, you know, take things as they came and have the capacity to see that for what it was and not feel that heaviness, I suppose, within you. And kind of the overwhelm of, oh my gosh, I have so much to do. Busyness and r was perhaps a way I have shown up in the past. Not always but almost like I had this persona that would be like high energy. Bring the chat, like really, chatty in meetings. Almost like annoying looking in hindsight now. But for me, I thought that was like adding energy to the room, but I was like, wow, that's almost showing up in the same way as stress, even though it wasn't necessarily that excited readiness. The other way, you know, when I would be feeling stretched is with that heaviness is, for me would be like a freeze response where I don't ask questions or I don't talk, or I don't say anything at all. And that is almost like something stuck in heaviness in my body. So the opposite of all of that is just calmly being like, how could I contribute to this conversation? Or what, what am I curious about? But you need the space to even have those thoughts come into your brain, right? So yeah, absolutely. It was about the space through the trees and you know, you don't know what's coming up, but I just wanna feel like I'm on a nice, calm bush walk every day at work. Even though sometimes it's really hard and you're walking uphill and your pack is way too heavy and you dunno why you bought the extra lollies. Yeah. Um, but you're still having a good time and yeah, that was, that's kind of how I guess I, I look at working lightly. But yeah, there's so much to it. Like, yeah, there's so much more than just that. But, um, the big other one is probably me being really comfortable in the way that I show up at work. And being comfortable with imperfection and and being myself, but without judgment, I suppose, because that was something I carried around in this kind of forced need to be perfect, um, or be seen as perfect. But actually the only person that needs to be happy with me is me. So self validation, I suppose. Yeah, absolutely. And when we start filling those gaps within ourselves, you know, I talk about it as a hunger, I think maybe we would've described it in those earlier sessions together. We feel very hungry for external validation when there's not a lot of internal validation going on. So there's, it creates a hunger on the inside of us and it's like we need to be fed either way. And if we don't know how to give ourselves validation. We're just not being intentional about giving ourselves validation and encouragement. We'll inevitably look for that outside of us and other people, and that will just cause us to push harder and overcompensate. It'll mean that our boundaries will drop. We'll do much more than we need to do. Put a lot of pressure on ourselves. So, yeah, being able to. To give yourself that validation and is really key. And we're gonna get into some practices, things practically that are really helpful for you in a sec. But I, yeah, I just really wanna acknowledge for you, Jen, that. You're in a role that has, you know, high degree of intensity associated with it, it's media facing. And you've actually been able to do this. You've been able to balance those two things of having this quite high pressure job and be able to experience work in a lighter way. And I think that's just an awesome example for so many people because I find that a lot of people almost resign to the fact that this is the way it has to be. That while this is work and I just have to have to sort of put up with it, I have to feel this way. Sometimes I find people think that they've gotta change jobs, and I think when people are sitting with that question of, should I be changing jobs? Should I be moving somewhere else? It's an important question to be sitting with, but I think we need to look at, look at that question more broadly. Sometimes the answer is to leave a job because it's become unhealthy. For us, it's maybe the environment is toxic or just the pressure, it, it doesn't make sense for a particular season of life. And so changing jobs and moving on is the right thing to do. But sometimes it's not actually about changing jobs. It's not actually about moving on and going somewhere else. It's actually about changing the way that we inter we are interacting with the role itself. And that's what I think you're embodying here for everybody is that. You've Cho chosen to really lean into this was an invitation really for you going into this role. You knew that there was going to be a lot of stretch involved with this, and I think what's so great, Jen, is that you've leaned into that invitation. You haven't shied away from it, and you've looked at, okay. This job is going to be what it is. This is what is involved with it, but I'm going to change the way I interact with it and I'm going to learn how to support myself so that my experience of this work is different. And I think it's a really important sort of distinction to make, is it's not, it's not always the right thing to leave because sometimes we'll find the same issues in the next role because we haven't made the internal shift within ourselves. So there's such power, I think in saying, look I actually have a degree of power here, a degree of influence around how I experience work, and that really comes back to the ways in which I'm supporting myself internally. Oh, I love that. And I honestly think like the 2024 was a year of, of big stretchy growth in terms of changing roles. And I started it in 2023, but um, you know, the last 12 months. Have felt much lighter than anything in the past. However, some of the things that I have been doing in the day-to-day have most certainly been more on the scarier side of anything I've ever also had to do at work. So I just am so happy that I've been able to, to find the tools that can help me be able to experience that. And that's not to say that, you know, there aren't periods of every week where you're like, oh my goodness gracious. And you, you start to feel that overwhelm. It's more around having the tools that you can use to move through that and return back to that state of kind of safety and, and rest and calm and something really crazy for me being, you know, high energy kind of person of days gone by and still has that in within me now, don't get me wrong, um, but is that, you know, a number of people have commented and, and again, like, I don't need this validation, but you know, how are you so calm? Or you're very calm, you're a calming influence. And if you asked me three years ago, if anyone would ever say that to me, I'll be like, no I'm the hypo fun one who's competent, but hypo and fun. Whereas now I don't, you know, that's within me and, you know, jokes and, um, you know, keeping things light and fun is always part of, of how I show up. But also to be able to, to sit quite calmly with myself before walking out on a stage in front of a lot of people with another person, perhaps sometimes too, and knowing that you're actually helping. Your nervous system has calm and therefore you're helping that person that you're with or, or the people that you might interact with afterwards before this become as well was for me. Like, I was like, wow, I didn't, that's not something I would've ever had as a goal or expected to be the case, but I don't, um, yeah. It's just was quite a proud moment, I suppose, for me and the last 12 months. Yeah. That's so beautiful and yeah. That it's for you, but it's also for others. So good. Okay. Well. Why don't we get really practical and I'd love to kind of pick your brain around things for you that are important daily practices for you, or even if it's not daily, they form part of your week. Tell me a bit about that. Like what does that look like for you to help you experience work in this light away? Yeah, great question because all of this. It's great in theory, but it's the practical tools that have helped me to, to really embed it into my life. And it is, it is a, as a, for me, it's been effective embedding it and making it a practice because just like everything, if, if we don't continue to practice these things, they'll slip away perhaps, and we'll, we might fall back into old habits, which is again, just like a natural human being thing to do. But, uh, I guess the first one is probably just around recognizing that slowness and not rushing is a great friend. And in order to be in that space, it starts from when I wake up in the morning. I suppose it would often be boom, rush to the gym or rush out for a run. Still go to the gym, still go for a run, but you don't have to rush. And, um, and taking the pauses where you can, you know, that cup of tea and being very present while you drink it or. Breathing and, the slow breaths. I, I find it's really hard to rush when you're breathing slowly. Yeah. The two don't work together, do they? I know, and we've never actually talked about that in a session or anything, but I remember thinking that this last few weeks I was thinking, I was like, it's really hard to be in a rush if you have to just, if you're sitting there, you know, with your hands on the desk or your hands on your, your, just sitting and you breath in for four and out for six and four, out for six, a number of times. Just slowly noticing a breath and then you, you continue on. You can't rush away from doing that. And so that's been a great, you know, when I realize I'm like rushing or, or sort of, jumping from one thing to the next, it's a great way to pause. Uh, which is as a practice, I definitely use, uh, and, and as well as obviously like, yeah, taking those moments to pause and reflect and have compassion in whatever it is that I'm up to. And recognizing those emotions or feelings that have been coming up, whether it's stress or worry or. Happiness or proudness, proudness pride. And those sort of, those are things you can just do at any time of the day and night. Uh, right. So that's one. For me, looking after my physical health is still, and it always has been really important, uh, in terms of a daily practice. So whether that's exercise and sometimes, you know, when you, when things have been stretchy, that will look like a walk and perhaps a walk, not even with. Any podcast in your ears or anything, just a walk where you're by yourself with your thoughts, phone on airplane mode, whatever it is. So that's something I wouldn't have ever done. I would always be like, right, it has to be a run or like a full on gym workout and heavy weights, or whatever it is. So now I'm like, oh, a nice walk and you feel amazing afterwards. Right? So it's just taking on those practices that are best going to serve you in that moment. Or if you're in the opposite, you know, and you're in this really chilled out. Phase, maybe you need to go for a run to like get yourself moving again and like get that energy reroofed up. Mm-hmm. Um, the big one is that, is a daily practice is recognizing when I need some time by myself. So in a role with, uh, with my personality and in a role that I do, and there's a lot of sort of interaction that will involve a lot of energy giving, I suppose. And what I've realized is. I'd most certainly be pegged as an extrovert if you kind of watch me in a room. But what I would probably more describe myself as a bit of an introvert who maybe shows up as an extrovert because I need that time by myself. And again, I haven't diagnosed myself with this as just kinda an observation, but I think. If I can take that time to refuel my energy reserves with a book or with my journal or just on a quiet walk, that pays me back dividends. Yeah. Other ones to get me in my body, you know, and I might be up in my head racing round or be tapping EFT, tapping. And you've talked about this a lot on your podcast and it's an amazing tool that seems to work extremely well for me. And you know, it's up to, individuals to find out what tools work best for them, but tapping has been a great one for. For me, um, any time of the day or night and personal life, work life wherever, journaling and taking time to reflect on my thoughts as a way of, sometimes even a way of trying to recognize what an emotion might be that I'm actually feeling. Because sometimes I think we don't know how we're feeling, so you getting it down on paper can help with that. So yeah, I think those are the main ones. Uh, and also preloading rest. I never used to preload rest. I used to like do all of the things for probably weeks or months on end and be like, on this date I've got a holiday, or on this date I'm going on a tram, or on this date I'm gonna go see my friends. And you know, the south island or wherever they live. And no, actually you can take a pause before you do the stretchy thing and maybe you'll come back and be able to show up even more. So that's been a game changer as well. Yeah, that I love that point. It's looking ahead to see, yeah, what's actually on what are, what is coming up in this next month and how do I intentionally build rest into my week knowing that, okay, these things are gonna ask a lot of me, they're going to take a lot of emotional energy from me. So how do I build those reserves up before I actually get there? I think. That's, that's such a great way of looking at it, Dean. What do you do for yourself? How do you prepare yourself perhaps before and after high pressure situations? So like you talk about how you often present to, like, you might be in media interviews or you might be presenting to a really large groups of people. How are you helping yourself or supporting yourself? Preparing yourself before those things, and what do you do after? Yeah, that's a great point because you know that it's not that you magically stop getting nervous or you magically stop Yeah. Feeling like this isn't tricky or hard or stretchy or challenging and you'd rather, you know, not do it if you could, but actually you have to do it. So, yeah. So the first one I guess is I prepare for whatever the thing is, uh, whether it's media or or presentation. You know, there's always a preparation period involved, and for me that involves. Preparing the content, whatever that looks like, but also really trying to understand who the audience is so that I can be confident in my belief that I'm gonna be adding value because I understand who the audience is. Now in a radio interview, it's a lot more tricky, but you have to realize with those sorts of things, that there'll be a wide audience. So you need to speak in some aspects to a high level, but also, you know, offer it in a really easy and bite sized, easy to understand kind of way. And the same goes for for any sort of. Communication, I suppose. But, and I'd say the communication side of this role is the more stretchy part, especially when you're facing other people and you might be the one in the spotlight. So I guess what I, what I'm trying to say there is that though that preparation is something I can control and I'm not trying to control it. It's just by way of preparation, I am helping control the way that this will hopefully work out for me. And it might not, but at least I've done my best to be prepared. Yes. But then, I mean, practical tools outside of that. Preparation Prepar, as long as you've got time to do it. For me will be really, tapping is a big one. So taking some time. And this might, this is very regularly in a strange location like hidden somewhere. Um, maybe the moves bathroom perhaps, or the bathroom. Or even occasionally, just as long as there's some sort of covering and people can't see you, you know, you can just sit there by yourself with your. Thoughts, um, if I can do it somewhere where I can say, you know, these sort of, tapping on the meridian points and, and talking through out loud the emotions that you're feeling. So, really I'm just trying to say to myself, how am I feeling now? How do I, and, you know, moving through that positive side of how you kind of wanna show up and, um. For me, I usually, you know, if my eyes are watering or if I'm just feeling kind of quite light afterwards, I know that I've really shifted some emotion or, or really helped to ground myself and, and that preparation and got, back in my body and out of my head. It's that, you know, you're wanting to be in your body, really going into some of these things if you can. And um, that's so true. Yeah. So that's the big one. And then after the, the big one for me, I guess that you helped me learn is that after the thing you're done, right? So you're like, woo, finished, like, yeah, hypo, I did it. And then I'm like, okay, well wait, I'm hypo because I finished. That's also my nervous system being like, Hey, Jen, like. Let's go back to how you felt after that tapping or that little chat you had with yourself. And it might just be a chat, you might not be, have any time to go into the bathroom and, and, you know, do that. So it might just be a little kind of chat that you have with yourself. But the big one for me, and especially if things don't go as well as, as you wanted them to, or, or there's some learnings that you could take out, but even if they did, you know, a, some time to reflect after that. On what you've just done. And sometimes I'll write down in a journal, you know, maybe especially if I'm wanting to improve next time, the, this wasn't so interesting, didn't seem as interesting to people. The q and a kind of focused on this. So maybe I need to explain that better. But also just for me, like what did I learn from that and how do I bring myself back to a place of kind of safety and, and calm again after that. Because else you're coming off that experience for, I'm not sure of the science here, but I would say a good few hours. And usually at the end of that few hours you feel whew, bit, bit down, a bit shattered. So if you can kind of process some of those emotions, if you've got time, and you might not, because you might be jumping then into a networking event or something. But if you've got the time, that a hundred percent for me has been a wonderful way to. To almost move on from it. And then sometimes you're like, what did I do today again? Because you're like, oh yeah, I did that thing this morning. I did that really big thing that a couple years ago I thought I wouldn't be able to do. But yeah, it doesn't feel like a big. Load on me because I've been able to process it and lift it off because I think you're right. We actually have to really be aware of the toll that it takes on our nervous system, even if we weren't completely spinning out before we were about to do it. When we're in a space of being extra visible, having to step out in a new way or in an unfamiliar way, our nervous system will always have a response to that. And I think it's important to, to recognize that. And I love when you talk about the reflection. That's something that I always do when I speak somewhere, because yeah, I don't know about other people listening, but if I don't do that intentional reflection, my mind will do it for me and will naturally go to the things that I didn't do well enough or were not good enough or the thing, or we'll start to pick. The whole experience apart. So I like to get out in front of it and reflect on, okay, what am I really proud of? Like, what went really well today? Like when I was doing that, what can I intentionally recognize as being positive from that experience? And then as you say, like, what am my learnings and to, to approach that with intention as well. Because it's, it's learnings without judgment. I think if we don't do it intentionally, the mind will get fixated on, oh, I tripped up on this, or I kind of didn't respond the way I wanted to. In this way. The mind will get tripped up on that, and it really pulls us into a place of self-judgment. But if we can be intentional about our reflection, we take it as a learning. Okay, next time, as you were saying this, I think I, I need to focus a bit more on this or prepare a bit more in this way. Then it's just a learning. It's not something that we use as more evidence that we're not good enough and that we shouldn't be doing what we're doing, which is kind of what the mind can do. Oh, a hundred percent. And it's, yeah. It's interesting you say that'cause it's not conscious, is it? Like you're not realizing that yourself sabotaging potentially, if, you know, and not all presentations or not all interactions or meetings or whatever it is, go like swimmingly well, all the time. Yeah. And I think it's human nature for us to, to be a little bit hard on ourself and be like, oh. That was bad. Like, and then you are, you're spiraling self-consciously, subconsciously. And I think, yeah, that was a great thing just to remember if you've got time and if you don't have time, you, you can come back the next day and do it. Yeah. Absolute. Absolutely. You just reflect, you go back to that point. You put yourself immediately post and you say, Hey, wait, what was a few things from yesterday? And it's amazing, right? I find writing things down just even outside of this, but just writing something down for me just takes it out of my mind. And it puts it on paper and it seems to have a lot less of an effect on me. Once it's down there. It's like it's come out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Which is good. Yeah. That's awesome. Jen, anything else that you wanna share from a practical point of view? I think you've offered a lot of stuff there. Does that capture most of it? I think it captures most. Yeah. And um, yeah, I think Journaling's a great one. For me, and we don't, I don't necessarily have time to journal every day. But making the time to, to sit down and, and reflect on, on the week that's been, or, um, the month that's been, and I try to do it most weekends if I can, uh, is, is a nice way to, to just take your learnings as you're going along and also to to move anything that might be circling that you might not be aware of. And I think for me also. Recognizing anytime I have got triggered during the day and whatever that might look like. Just trying to process that, um, in the evenings or the next morning or whenever it might be, when you've realized that that's actually something that has, you haven't, you're not ready to let go of and you would like to work through, then I think the tapping can be really good for that too, in terms of just feeling what that emotion is and, um, and taking, you know, the control away from the emotion and, and just processing it. So that's been big in terms of. The self-compassion, I suppose and, and the kindness that one can have with oneself actually. It's so, just a huge part of all of this isn't, it, is actually learning to not motivate ourselves from a place of pressure and judgment. Learning to motivate ourselves from a place of inner support and kindness and compassion and really love towards ourselves. That's really what underpins this whole conversation around working lightly is we cannot access a state of lightness when we are coming from a place of self-judgment and pressure. We access it through love, kindness, compassion, and support of ourselves. Yes, and that's actually something I've. Written down multiple times, you know, lightness, and I didn't even say it earlier, but you're right, lightness comes from that, from a place of love. And uh, that once, you know, once you recognize that and, and you start to experience it, it's, it's a wonderful place, wonderful place to be. Yeah, it is. Yeah. A lot of things click into place when we can access that and it's available for all of us. Yeah, that's right. So good. Jen, this has been such a great conversation. I've loved this just for myself personally, to walk down like memory laying with you around the things that we've covered together. And I just know people listening have got a lot of out out of this and hearing your journey and your experience as well. Is there anything else that you wanna share before we close out the conversation? No, uh, I think this has been wonderful and it has been amazing to reflect. You know, the last few months when I, when we decided we would do this, I've just been giving it a lot of thought, uh, in terms of the journey that we've been on together, and I'm so grateful, Annabel, and, uh, it is, it is amazing to think back, you know, and just recognize that I'm living some of the, the things that I wanted for myself, um, in a role that's much more challenging than anything I've ever done before. So, um, no, I'm really grateful and, um, I'm so glad that we met and we. Can continue to work together, you know, and there's always there's always stuff that we can chat about, so it's great. Yeah. That's wonderful. Okay, well thank you so much for being here, Jen, and for being honest and open and willing to share your experience. It's just been such a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. I hope Jen's story and the practical tools we've discussed have inspired you to find more ease, resilience, self-compassion, and really just an easier way in your own work and life. A huge thank you to Jen Corcoran for sharing her journey so openly and honestly in this episode. And if you found value in this conversation, please consider sharing it with a friend or with a colleague, or even leaving a review. It really helps this podcast reach more people who need it. And if you're ready to learn how to work lightly yourself, I'm currently taking on a limited number of private coaching clients before I head away on maternity leave. There are a couple of options. Either work with me in a program or check out my new working Lightly Reset, which is a three hour private coaching experience with me. You'll find the link to both of those options in the description of this episode below. Thank you again for listening. Take care and I'll see you in the next episode. Okay.